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Friday, May 04, 2007

The Mailbag: A Reader on Estonia

Letters, we get letters, we get lots of cards and letters every day!

One of La Russophobe's oldest and most cherished readers writes the following observation on the Estonia imbroglio:

Dear LR,

Tallinn vs Katyn - Over Tallinn, the RUSSIAN people are deeply dismayed by the insult they perceive the THEIR SOVIET Red Army martyrs. Whereas over Katyn, they say that they have NOTHING to do with the actions of the GRU (essentially part of the conscripted military of the SOVIET Red Army, and refuse totally to offer any apology for the Polish genocide, saying it is nothing to do with them. On the one hand they absolutely identify themselves with the Soviet military forces, while on the other hand they totally reject any link. Am I the only one to sense gross hypocrisy here? Classic soviet era stuff.

Yours truly,

Indeed so! Exactly this kind of thinking brought the USSR to its knees. Russians really believe, like children, that they can have their cake and eat it too. Not gonna happen.


Anonymous said...

Dear La Russophobe, my congratulations, you came on positions of Fascism and Nazism. You tell, that people are responsible for the crimes of people with their nationality.

Fascists told the same. They were telling, that Jews are responsible for the crimes of people of jewish nationality.

La Russophobe, you have shown once again your fascistic views.

La Russophobe said...

Martin Luther King said that all white people in America are responsible for racism, and "white moderates" who sit and watch it happen are more dangerous to black people than KKK members.

You can run from the judgment of history, but you can't hide from it. Russia's plummeting population will find you out, like a hurricane. You make excuses for inaction, and in so doing you dig your own grave.

mcmad said...

Todays Russia is denying the crimes of Soviet era (and their co-operation with Nazi Germany in 193.-40) and attacks any country, especially if its one that was formerly under their rule, that dares to mention them. Russia aggressively demands that formerly occupied countries in the Soviet bloc accept Russia's "version" of the past. Any mention about the crimes of the Soviet era is called an insult to the "heroes of the Great Patriotic War."
And yes, Russian people who deny those crimes are also guilty. They are no better that Holocaust deniers.

Anonymous said...

crimes here and there
russians are people who do not forget
the polish dimitri 1612 resulted in the division of poland 1790
the polish attemt to invade russia when it was in one of its weakest points in history 1917 resulted in katyn..

western criticism is denied in russia due to the fact the westernens tend to become emotional when talking about russia, are not able to stay with cool head and argument objectively...commonly they contruct a sentence arriving at the word crime..and then there is a brain facts no numbers have been mentioned..

mcmad said...

Specially for you, anonymous fool:

On June 16-17, 1940, the Soviet troops occupied the whole territory of Estonia and demanded a change to a new pro-Soviet puppet government. Similarly to the developments in neighboring Latvia and Lithuania, the occupation and change of government was then in the three countries followed by "parliamentary elections" where all but pro-Communist candidates were outlawed. The "parliament" so elected proclaimed Estonia a Socialist Republic on July 21, 1940 and unanimously requested Estonia to be "accepted" into the USSR. Estonia was formally annexed into the Soviet Union on August 6 and renamed the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic.[1] The 1940 occupation and annexation of Estonia into the Soviet Union was considered illegal and never officially recognized by Great Britain, the United States and other Western democracies.

The Soviet authorities, having gained control over Estonia, immediately imposed a regime of terror. During the first year of Soviet occupation (1940-1941) over 8,000 people, including most of the country's leading politicians and military officers, were arrested. About 2,200 of the arrested were executed in Estonia, while most others were moved to prison camps in Russia, from where very few were later able to return alive. On June 14, 1941, when mass deportations took place simultaneously in all three Baltic countries, about 10,000 Estonian civilians were deported to Siberia and other remote areas of the USSR, where nearly half of them later perished. Of the 32,100 Estonian men who were forcibly relocated to Russia under the pretext of mobilisation into the Soviet army after the German invasion of the USSR in 1941, nearly 40 percent died within the next year in the so-called "labour battalions" through hunger, cold and overworking.

In World War II Estonia suffered huge losses. Ports were destroyed, and 45% of industry and 40% of the railways were damaged. Estonia's population decreased by one-fifth, about 200,000 people. Some 10% of the population (over 80,000 people) fled to the West between 1940 and 1944. More than 30,000 soldiers were killed in action. In 1944 Russian air raids destroyed Narva and one-third of the residential area in Tallinn. By the late autumn of 1944, Soviet forces expelled the last German troops from Estonia, ushering in a second phase of Soviet rule, followed again by a wave of arrests and executions of people considered disloyal to the Soviets.

In March 1949, 20,722 people (2.5% of the population) were deported to Siberia. By the beginning of the 1950s, the occupying regime had suppressed the resistance movement.

Anonymous said...

This is elmer (no Google account).

W.C. has indeed hit the nail exactly on the head.

This kind of "now you see it, now you don't," "now we're Russians, now we're Soviets" game has been going on for quite some time.

They are so used to unopposed Soviet propaganda techniques, that they don't even realize it, or don't care, when they contradict themselves in the same sentence.

All over the blogs, you see this:

"Soviet union is gone, was mistake."

And in the very same sentence, they scream about a Soviet war monument being moved - not removed - to a cemetery, away from the middle of traffic.

It occurs to me that the screams from Russkie-land into little Estonia are so loud because the long arm of Soviet Russkie thuggery has fallen off.

It used to be that one bark from Moscow would bring people in the former Sovok republics cowering to their knees.

Now, Moscow has to stop oil shipments to Estonia.

Freedom is a very powerful concept.

And, it is one that is infuriating to All-Powerful Holy Oily Sovok Tsarist Orthodox Schizoid Mother Russia.

Russkies love misery - it makes them happy.

Anonymous said...

This is elmer again.

And I feel compelled to add one more thing.

To this day, the russkies still feel absolutely livid about - Slobo Milosevic.

It does not matter that he killed over 200,000 people. It does not matter that he engaged in ethnic cleansing.

What matters is that he was an ally of Great and Powerful Oily Orthodox Tsarist Sovok Russia.

And how dare NATO bring him down!!!

The concept of "beseiged fortress Russia" noted in the article immediately above, "Bovt on the CFE Treaty," is nothing new.

But it's exactly right.

Russkies have always engaged in the politics of confrontation.

And they still do.

Дайош Америку!

That means "On to America".

Except, of course, if you're a Russian oligarch.

Then it's "on to Londongrad."

Anonymous said...

We Georgians support our Estonian brethren in their struggle against Russian chauvinism and declare:

• The relocation of the statue of a Red Army occupier with respect to history is the internal business of Estonia and no other state can intervene to this with demand for the government to resign;
• Russian press unmercifully perverts information about conflict in Estonia and is actively creating image of Baltic States as enemy of Russia;
• Russia is engaged in chauvinistic and ultra-nationalistic hysteria against the free, democratic and European Estonia
• Russia has demonstrated intolerance for the freedom of its neighbours and used radical neo-nazi youth movement “nashi” to wage series of attacks on Estonian embassy and staff through provocations and aggression;
• We fully support Estonian state and Estonian nation in their heroic stance against the emerging neo-imperialistic fascist state which present a greater threat for the security and stability in Europe and beyond.
• Lithuania Latvia Georgia, European Union and all democratic states of the world should express their full support for Estonia in no uncertain terms because the same thing may happen to all of the countries which are involved with Russia.

Grusiinlased už Estiją!

Georgians For Estonia

Грузины зa Эстонию

Scott said...

I always get a chuckle when pro-Putin Russians accuse others of being fascists.

I ask them to explain these photos.

Anonymous said...

This is elmer (no Google account).

Wow, Scott!

As many have previously pointed out, when it comes to extremism, there is a closed circle, and a point where left and right meet at exactly the same place.

The neo-Sovoks don't want to admit it, but:

Nazi = Soviet

Soviet = Nazi

Thanks for the link!

Anonymous said...

This is Hector,

Elmer shows a true display of ignorance. The Soviets crushed the Nazis. They are in no way similar. I'll give you a real formula:



Reasons: USA seeks world domination; USA funded Hitler's coup in 1933 for anti-Communist front, USA and Nazis are capitalists, bourgeois, and bloodthirsty, USA, UK, Nazis, Italian fascists funded Franco's fascist cutthroats in Spain.

Those who whine about Katyn: when are the Polish capitalists going to apologize for the 50,000 plus Red Army soldiers that perished in POW camps during the Polish-Soviet war??????

Anonymous said...

This is Hector,

To Scott: I'll be more than happy to explain the photos to you. Stalin's program was against everything revolutionary Communism stands for. Stalin was not about international revolution against the capitalists but to co-exist peacefully with them. That's really what the Nazi-Soviet pact was about: "We get eastern Poland and the Baltics, they get western Poland. No more beef with the Nazis". As a result of this pact many Communist who sought refuge in the Soviet Union from the Nazis were handed over to them on Stalin orders. One of them was Austrian Communist Franz Koritschoner, who was the founder of the Communist Party of Austria and a militia leader during the workers' anti-fascist insurrection in Austria 1934. Stalin was a class collaborating bureaucrat, not a Communist revolutionary. Bluntly put, if you have anyone to thank for Communism not spreading; your gratitude should go to Stalin;)