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Friday, November 10, 2006

The Fundamentals of Russian Racism

Here's an interesting quote from Sean's Russia blog:

I think the Kremlin deserves credit in its attempt to fuse the important place Russian (russkii) culture with its multinational (rossisskii) character. The problem is how this translates to the rest of the population. If the fissures the nationalists exposed in the National Unity Day celebrations are any indication, Russian (russkii) identity continues to present problems for Russian (rossisskii) identity.
What if we were to change the first sentence a bit to read as follows:
I think the White House deserves credit in its attempt to fuse the important place White Anglo-Saxon Culture (WASP) with its multinational (American) character.
It seems to La Russophobe that Sean would be unlikely ever to make such a statement. In fact, it seems to her that if George Bush went around talking this way (and he might, because what Sean wrote isn't a grammatical sentence), Sean would (quite properly) call him a racist. But Sean wouldn't be calling him a racist out a sense of scholarly accuracy; he'd be saying it because he hates George Bush and loses no opportunity to trash him. He feels more kindly to Vladimir Putin, so he's prepared to let him off the hook. In doing so, he makes a number of serious errors.

Sean seems to overlook the fact that his need to refer to the terms "russkii" and "rossisskii" is a an indication that Russian society -- indeed, langauge -- is fundamentally racist. His euphemism that the terms "continue to present problems" only helps to obscure the problem of racism, not solve it. In fact, it can only be called somewhat intellectually dishonest for Sean to refer to "russkii" without mentioning the fact that what this word really means is "Slavic," a racial term. In other words, most (all?) Slavic Russians consider any non-Slav to be a second-class citizen at best, usually more like an infestation. Indeed, there's no way of even translating this distinction into English so that an American could understand what Russians are doing. There is no word like "russkii" in English, no word that means "real American, because he's white and of a certain religion." The closest you could get would be something like "KKK member" -- words that have an overwhelmingly negative flavor to most white Americans, while most Slavs are deeply proud of the term "russkii." And a word like "African-American" isn't remotely like the world "rossisskii." African-American is a word that the minority group itself adopted as a banner of pride, and tries to get the white population to recognize. The term "rossisskii" is a term applied by the Slavs in Russia to the non-Slavs, without their permission.

5 comments:

17 ugly raccoons said...

In fact, it can only be called somewhat intellectually dishonest for Sean to refer to "russkii" without mentioning the fact that what this word really means is "Slavic," a racial term. In other words, most (all?) Slavic Russians consider any non-Slav to be a second-class citizen at best, usually more like an infestation.

Firstly, Slavs are not a race, and 'русский' is just one from many Slavic nationalities. Others are Ukrainians, Belorussians, Serbs and so on.

Secondly, where you've got the idea about 'most (all?)', 'infestation' aside?

Thirdly, 'rossisskii' is derived from 'Rossiya', as we Russians name our country, so it means concerning\relating to country\state: for example, 'Russian citizenship' means 'российское гражданство'. But it is not ethnic self-identification.

Fourthly, 'русский' (russki) is name of one nationality (83% of population) from many 'российских' (rossiyski) nationalities. It is ethnic self-identification. Others are Tatars, Bashkirs and so on.

If Westerners cannot make a distinction between 'русский' and 'российский' translating both as 'Russian', then it is their problem not our. I hope Westerners usually are not as stupid and hating as LR.

Conclusions about 'racism' from your own insufficient understanding are just projections.

La Russophobe said...

UGLY:

If the point of your comment is to try to argue that Russia isn't fundamentally racist, I suggest you first sit down and have an actual conversation with a non-Slavic Orthodox person who lives in Russia first. Your ignorance is showing (even more than usual).

Slavic IS a race, "Russian" is a nationality. I think you need to make better use of a dictionary. Or maybe that wouldn't help, since you have no brain.

Please give me JUST ONE example of a published article from a Slav arguing that the citizenship of Slavs and non-Slavs in Russia is equal. If most Russians didn't think otherwise, there wouldn't be pogroms, now would there?

I KNOW that "rossisskii" is not self-identification, that what I SAID, you ignoramus. And the fact that this is so proves conclusively that the term is racist and not like "African-American."

We can't make a distinction because our language is not fundamentally racist. For the same reason, you can't translate the idea of "American," a word that has no connection to race, because all your ideas of citizenship are tied to race.

You know UGLY, strange to say, I actually expected better from you. You're willing to admit you're happy that Politkovskaya was killed and that you don't want Russia in the WTO, why can't you admit that Russia is fundmantally racist? Have we actually reached the point where you're at last ashamed of your country, or at least fear the wrath of all those billions of dark-skinned people?

17 ugly raccoons said...

You mean this? A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

Oh, here goes my bad English again. You know, I considered all teachings about 'German race' and such as Nazism and honestly thought such ideas died with Nazis. For me, there were three races - Europeoids, Negroids and Mongoloids. White, black and yellow.

But you convinced me such 'race' things are common at the West even now. Well, my image of the West suffered again. Thanks.

Please give me JUST ONE example of a published article from a Slav arguing that the citizenship of Slavs and non-Slavs in Russia is equal.

Here. Articles 6 and 19. Now is your turn. Give me just one article from any Westerner arguing that not any Westerner is paedophile or arguing that humans are breathing air or... you got the idea.

If most Russians didn't think otherwise, there wouldn't be pogroms, now would there?

What pogroms? You chickened out from proving there were anything resembling 'pogroms' defined in dictionary, where 'most' Russians (120 mln) were engaging or at least had means to influence. I have no desire to dispel your illusions, as I said, I am no psychiatrist.

I KNOW that "rossisskii" is not self-identification, that what I SAID, you ignoramus. And the fact that this is so proves conclusively that the term is racist

Oh my, you are complete idiot. I am Russian (Rossiyskii) citizen (Российский гражданин), and I am of Russian (Russkii) nationality (русский по национальности) simultaneously. There is no such thing as Russian citizen in meaning Русский гражданин. Some other guy is Russian (Rossiyskii) citizen (российский гражданин) and of Bashkir nationality (башкир по национальности) simultaneously. When officials are addressing nation they use word Rossiyane not Russkie. Rossiyane means any of Russian citizens not only Russians by nationality. If I am in mean mood I can argue 'I am not Rossiyanin, I am Russian!' and that guy can argue 'I am not Rossiyanin, I am Bashkir!' And?

We can't make a distinction because our language is not fundamentally racist.

My guess you are just don't care about other languages. You know - mental lazyness, stupidity... In your case coupled with hatred. BTW, I heard one from ten of future 'African-Americans' survived jolly trip from Africa to America on slave ships. Yeah, you and your language are not fundamentally racist.

For the same reason, you can't translate the idea of "American," a word that has no connection to race

Yes, white colonizers almost destroyed that race by methods Hitler could be proud of (and he was, actually), so you are right, there is no connection now.

because all your ideas of citizenship are tied to race

Read it again.

why can't you admit that Russia is fundmantally racist?

Because it is a lie from deranged loser?

Have we actually reached the point where you're at last ashamed of your country, or at least fear the wrath of all those billions of dark-skinned people?

Shame? Fear? What are these? I am right, and it is all that matters.

La Russophobe said...

UGLY:

Please at least try to keep your ignorance in check.

Why do you use the SECOND definition rather than the FIRST, which states: "A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics."

Why? Because you're a dishonest, propagandizing moron living in a dreamworld, imagining you can still fool the West with your Sovietspeak.

When I said "article" I meant A COLUMN IN A NEWSPAPER written by a Slav arguing that dark-skinned people are just as good and should be treated equally by Slavs. Dimwit.

17 ugly raccoons said...

Please at least try to keep your ignorance in check.

...because you don't like competition?

"A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics."

And? I'd say absolutely the same thing. For me, there are three races, populations of lower level are not races but ethnicities.

I meant A COLUMN IN A NEWSPAPER written by a Slav arguing that dark-skinned people are just as good and should be treated equally by Slavs.

The same thing. Show me article where some Westerner arguing that humans should breath air not water.

And don't sign your posts, please, your name before 'said' is enough.